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	<title>Comments on: Is Obamacare A Promise Of Something For Nothing?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://jeffreyellis.org/blog/?feed=rss2&#038;p=1711" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://jeffreyellis.org/blog/?p=1711</link>
	<description>Swimming upstream against a raging current of stupid.</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 10 Sep 2010 21:35:47 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Maddog</title>
		<link>http://jeffreyellis.org/blog/?p=1711&#038;cpage=1#comment-3772</link>
		<dc:creator>Maddog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Sep 2009 22:41:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jeffreyellis.org/blog/?p=1711#comment-3772</guid>
		<description>John Lott has an interesting paper titled, "Uninsured Americans vs. Insured Canadians: Who is More Satisfied with Their Health Care?"

The paper concludes, "that the vast majority of uninsured Americans are satisfied with their health care. Indeed, only 2.3 percent of Americans are both uninsured and very dissatisfied with the quality of the medical care that they receive. The paper finds that Canadians are much closer to uninsured Americans than to insured Americans in their satisfaction with their health care."

At least in Canada Jess' assumption seems misplaced.

I do not understand the concept of "arbitrary rationing" you discuss above.  Nor do I understand rationing to occur in non-government health care in the US.  Presumably you are not discussing the rationing that occurs in Medicare in Oregon, which has intentionally created a rationing system to limit costs within the Medicare system.  The results in Oregon are predictably odd with one woman being denied chemotherapy for cancer but being offered assisted suicide if desired.  


Mark</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John Lott has an interesting paper titled, &#8220;Uninsured Americans vs. Insured Canadians: Who is More Satisfied with Their Health Care?&#8221;</p>
<p>The paper concludes, &#8220;that the vast majority of uninsured Americans are satisfied with their health care. Indeed, only 2.3 percent of Americans are both uninsured and very dissatisfied with the quality of the medical care that they receive. The paper finds that Canadians are much closer to uninsured Americans than to insured Americans in their satisfaction with their health care.&#8221;</p>
<p>At least in Canada Jess&#8217; assumption seems misplaced.</p>
<p>I do not understand the concept of &#8220;arbitrary rationing&#8221; you discuss above.  Nor do I understand rationing to occur in non-government health care in the US.  Presumably you are not discussing the rationing that occurs in Medicare in Oregon, which has intentionally created a rationing system to limit costs within the Medicare system.  The results in Oregon are predictably odd with one woman being denied chemotherapy for cancer but being offered assisted suicide if desired.  </p>
<p>Mark</p>
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		<title>By: jess</title>
		<link>http://jeffreyellis.org/blog/?p=1711&#038;cpage=1#comment-3743</link>
		<dc:creator>jess</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Sep 2009 16:55:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jeffreyellis.org/blog/?p=1711#comment-3743</guid>
		<description>I currently think that stronger caps would be a good thing in order to limit ineffective or redundant tests and procedures. The difficulty is in researching comparative effectiveness of tests and treatments and then implementing controls (just look at the FDA). 

Here's some more information about the UK to help clarify my statement of higher satisfaction outside the US.

"An annual social attitudes report compiled by Britain’s National Center for Social Research and released in January found that satisfaction with the NHS was higher than it had been at any time since 1984.
However, a breakdown shows that while satisfaction with NHS (general practitioners) was high, at 76 percent, satisfaction with inpatient services had dropped, from 74 percent in 1983 to 49 percent now."  -CNSnews.com

It's interesting to note that the International Society for Pharmacoeconomics and Outcomes Research found that 3/4 of the NHS total budget goes to Primary Care Trusts which prioritize funding for general practitioners and prescriptions.

Upon reflection it seems satisfaction with healthcare is relative to how healthy a person is within his/her system. The UK system seems well designed to keep healthy people satisfied (low costs with good preventative measures in place). The US has much better satisfaction with inpatient care, but healthy people foot the bill with high premiums and taxes.

And you’re right, demand for primary care and elective procedures would go up in a government program. Perhaps we need to hybridize our system with the UKs and allocate more funding(third party reimbursement) to primary care in order to meet the demand.


I'm taking the liberty of combining the comments of "Throwing Money at the Problem" with this post in the interests of brevity and common issues.

You make a good point about the disablement of the free market in response to my post under "Throwing Money at the Problem". The consumers do seek out low costs to themselves, but they do it through insurance company premiums. There is no consumer interest in knowing how much healthcare actually costs. Our disinterest may be crippling the free market system. More transparency in the industry would help as well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I currently think that stronger caps would be a good thing in order to limit ineffective or redundant tests and procedures. The difficulty is in researching comparative effectiveness of tests and treatments and then implementing controls (just look at the FDA). </p>
<p>Here&#8217;s some more information about the UK to help clarify my statement of higher satisfaction outside the US.</p>
<p>&#8220;An annual social attitudes report compiled by Britain’s National Center for Social Research and released in January found that satisfaction with the NHS was higher than it had been at any time since 1984.<br />
However, a breakdown shows that while satisfaction with NHS (general practitioners) was high, at 76 percent, satisfaction with inpatient services had dropped, from 74 percent in 1983 to 49 percent now.&#8221;  -CNSnews.com</p>
<p>It&#8217;s interesting to note that the International Society for Pharmacoeconomics and Outcomes Research found that 3/4 of the NHS total budget goes to Primary Care Trusts which prioritize funding for general practitioners and prescriptions.</p>
<p>Upon reflection it seems satisfaction with healthcare is relative to how healthy a person is within his/her system. The UK system seems well designed to keep healthy people satisfied (low costs with good preventative measures in place). The US has much better satisfaction with inpatient care, but healthy people foot the bill with high premiums and taxes.</p>
<p>And you’re right, demand for primary care and elective procedures would go up in a government program. Perhaps we need to hybridize our system with the UKs and allocate more funding(third party reimbursement) to primary care in order to meet the demand.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m taking the liberty of combining the comments of &#8220;Throwing Money at the Problem&#8221; with this post in the interests of brevity and common issues.</p>
<p>You make a good point about the disablement of the free market in response to my post under &#8220;Throwing Money at the Problem&#8221;. The consumers do seek out low costs to themselves, but they do it through insurance company premiums. There is no consumer interest in knowing how much healthcare actually costs. Our disinterest may be crippling the free market system. More transparency in the industry would help as well.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeffrey Ellis</title>
		<link>http://jeffreyellis.org/blog/?p=1711&#038;cpage=1#comment-3730</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeffrey Ellis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Sep 2009 13:45:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jeffreyellis.org/blog/?p=1711#comment-3730</guid>
		<description>Jess, I'm not sure about the higher satisfaction outside the US -- seems counter to what I've heard. But I agree with you that the "shotgun" approach contributes to rising costs, although I believe most economists think the lion's share is due to the third party system. And yes, we do have arbitrary rationing now but it will only get worse under a government program because they will put stronger caps on costs than private insurance companies are capable of doing. Demand will go up (more people will have coverage), costs will go down (by force), and then, by necessity, supply will not be there to match the demand.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jess, I&#8217;m not sure about the higher satisfaction outside the US &#8212; seems counter to what I&#8217;ve heard. But I agree with you that the &#8220;shotgun&#8221; approach contributes to rising costs, although I believe most economists think the lion&#8217;s share is due to the third party system. And yes, we do have arbitrary rationing now but it will only get worse under a government program because they will put stronger caps on costs than private insurance companies are capable of doing. Demand will go up (more people will have coverage), costs will go down (by force), and then, by necessity, supply will not be there to match the demand.</p>
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		<title>By: jess</title>
		<link>http://jeffreyellis.org/blog/?p=1711&#038;cpage=1#comment-3712</link>
		<dc:creator>jess</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Sep 2009 17:13:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jeffreyellis.org/blog/?p=1711#comment-3712</guid>
		<description>I forgot to comment on the "arbitrary rationing decisions by bureaucrats" that Sowell mentions. Arbitrary rationing seems to be the hallmark of any third-party payer.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I forgot to comment on the &#8220;arbitrary rationing decisions by bureaucrats&#8221; that Sowell mentions. Arbitrary rationing seems to be the hallmark of any third-party payer.</p>
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		<title>By: jess</title>
		<link>http://jeffreyellis.org/blog/?p=1711&#038;cpage=1#comment-3711</link>
		<dc:creator>jess</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Sep 2009 17:08:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jeffreyellis.org/blog/?p=1711#comment-3711</guid>
		<description>While people in Canada and the UK might have to wait weeks or months for treatments, overall satisfaction with government-run healthcare seems high outside the US. Having worked in healthcare here in the US, I know of many cases where Americans were quickly treated with ineffective drugs, surgeries, or alternative medicine. They continue to seek care until they are pain-free regardless of whether any procedure is proven effective or not.

I'd be interested in knowing exactly how much of the waste to which Sowell refers consists of healthcare providers and patients using a shotgun approach to medicine.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While people in Canada and the UK might have to wait weeks or months for treatments, overall satisfaction with government-run healthcare seems high outside the US. Having worked in healthcare here in the US, I know of many cases where Americans were quickly treated with ineffective drugs, surgeries, or alternative medicine. They continue to seek care until they are pain-free regardless of whether any procedure is proven effective or not.</p>
<p>I&#8217;d be interested in knowing exactly how much of the waste to which Sowell refers consists of healthcare providers and patients using a shotgun approach to medicine.</p>
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